Re: [pronut-hiv] Intake level for vitamin/mineral supplements for people with HIV infection

["George M. Carter" <fiar@verizon.net>]

Rachel wrote:

>Hi George. I agree with you that it's disappointing - shameful, even - 
>that there is still no good, intelligent consensus on vitamin/mineral 
>supplements for people with HIV infection. Dr Kaiser at least has made a 
>stab at it.

Indeed--and the reason I brought his protocol up was not to say that this 
should be THE one to be used--much for the reasons you cite. But rather to 
show that there are some data and, at least in their preliminary study and 
unlike the Thai study, they DID see a CD4+ increase.

Alpha lipoic is derived from potatos, tho, so maybe a less costly version 
could be developed. Possibly even using microcredit, entrepreneur-type 
approaches locally? That's another dimension....and I'm really just 
thinking out loud on that. I use alpha lipoic every day as part of my Hep C management protocol.

In the meantime, I would have no argument with a multi containing less B6 
and the glutamic acid is somewhat irrelevant, I grant you. Maybe because it tends to convert readily into glutamine. Would prefer glutamine acquired through something inexpensive like whey protein.

By contrast, another more practical alternative would be a simpler--yet 
still adequately potent--multivitamin/mineral. We have been getting good 
reports from our friends in Kathmandu to whom we've been sending shipments 
of the Custom Multi from the New York Buyers' Club. This formula was 
created by DAAIR's Fred Bingham and, when DAAIR closed, donated to NYBC.

That formula is a good one, overall but suffers two problems. One is that 
an adult dose, to get the full amount listed on the label, is 9 tablets a 
day. But I think people can get away with fewer; depends. It also needs to 
be taken with food, which is often times a one meal a day (on good days too often) situation in much of the developing world.

Another is the inclusion of a lot of methylsulfonylmethane (MSM). Now, 
there's one with few clinical data. I think Fred's idea was to replace the 
documented severe losses of sulfur suffered by PLWHAs. However, Droge also 
noted that this primarily from cysteine loss (and hence the often observed 
loss of intracellular reduced glutathione).  Again, though, whey protein 
could offset this? NAC is not necessarily an option?

Though I do confess to being overwhelmingly upset and tired of this 
nonsense about "costs" as the constraint. Given how MUCH money is 
squandered on things like needless wars, for example. But THAT is another 
kettle of poisoned fish I shall not broach now for fear of being reduced to scatological terminology!!

With regard to the Custom Multi, we'll be reformulating it in the next few 
months.

I hope more than ANYTHING that this excellent discussion veers now more toward
a) WHAT a multi should contain and
b) HOW we can start getting this into a standard of care for PLWHAs globally.

It is a very inexpensive and extremely valuable intervention, in my view. 
(Not, like that denialist jackass Rath says, a cure; but then ARV aren't a 
cure either.)

It would be nice to live in a world where the efforts to help people 
outweighed the urge to steal from them and kill them--through outright 
slaughter or the more insidious horror of denying treatment. Of whatever kind.

George M. Carter